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	<title>Comments on: Environmental Themes&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://greenbananablog.org/2008/02/environmental-themes/</link>
	<description>Critical Thought about Senseless Contradictions</description>
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		<title>By: Dallas</title>
		<link>http://greenbananablog.org/2008/02/environmental-themes/comment-page-1/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenbananablog.org/?p=15#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Regarding the suggestion from one classmate...
&quot;Maybe we can be anthropocentric with a conscience?&quot;

There&#039;s an idea. Could be like &#039;capitalism with compassion.&#039; Problem is, humans are generally compassionate only when it&#039;s self-serving. When backed into a corner, we tend to fight for self interests and not the greater good. We need another life; one that is not self-seeking, selfish, self centered, etc.

Conscience based, peaceful human living would imply everyone agrees on what&#039;s right and wrong. To many extremists, we are considered infidels and worthy of annihilation. The real question is how to have genuine oneness. Heck, we&#039;re not even one with ourselves! :-\


You also wrote...
&quot;With regard to the media, supply and demand absolutely are the crux but if we demand more of what is truly important and directly affects us instead of only what we &quot;enjoy&quot; hearing and seeing wouldn&#039;t that change the status quo of what gets reported? If it truly is supply and demand and we demand, then they should supply, correct? How do we accomplish this? I have no idea.&quot;

Again, you understand the problem and the solution. What we don&#039;t know is the process required to arrive at the solution. Hmm... we&#039;ve tried activism, education, patience, family values, what&#039;s left? 

Your question gets into another matter about which I just wrote a paper. Too much to go into here. Basic gist is: When we were a production based society, restraint was status quo. With the transition to a consumer based culture, impulse living is legitimized and self-gratification becomes status quo.  My question is, Do you think it&#039;s possible to return?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the suggestion from one classmate&#8230;<br />
&#8220;Maybe we can be anthropocentric with a conscience?&#8221;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s an idea. Could be like &#8216;capitalism with compassion.&#8217; Problem is, humans are generally compassionate only when it&#8217;s self-serving. When backed into a corner, we tend to fight for self interests and not the greater good. We need another life; one that is not self-seeking, selfish, self centered, etc.</p>
<p>Conscience based, peaceful human living would imply everyone agrees on what&#8217;s right and wrong. To many extremists, we are considered infidels and worthy of annihilation. The real question is how to have genuine oneness. Heck, we&#8217;re not even one with ourselves! :-\</p>
<p>You also wrote&#8230;<br />
&#8220;With regard to the media, supply and demand absolutely are the crux but if we demand more of what is truly important and directly affects us instead of only what we &#8220;enjoy&#8221; hearing and seeing wouldn&#8217;t that change the status quo of what gets reported? If it truly is supply and demand and we demand, then they should supply, correct? How do we accomplish this? I have no idea.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, you understand the problem and the solution. What we don&#8217;t know is the process required to arrive at the solution. Hmm&#8230; we&#8217;ve tried activism, education, patience, family values, what&#8217;s left? </p>
<p>Your question gets into another matter about which I just wrote a paper. Too much to go into here. Basic gist is: When we were a production based society, restraint was status quo. With the transition to a consumer based culture, impulse living is legitimized and self-gratification becomes status quo.  My question is, Do you think it&#8217;s possible to return?</p>
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		<title>By: D. L.</title>
		<link>http://greenbananablog.org/2008/02/environmental-themes/comment-page-1/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>D. L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenbananablog.org/?p=15#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Wow! How &quot;poetically&quot; put Dallas! (I love your definition of interdependency -- that was great!) I still struggle with how we CANNOT be anthropocentric -- as you point out, we are the only species capable of accomplishing all that we have in such a short period of time (even if it is in the form of destruction!) We are pretty incredible. Other living organisms are &quot;pretty incredible&quot; as well -- the microscopic organisms we need in our bodies to survive, the insects and plants all giving rise to interdependency in their own ways, but as you state, they don&#039;t APPRECIATE any of it either (not that we&#039;re not CAPABLE, we just take it all for granted and lose sight of the fact that we&#039;re not the only ones out there contributing or in need). Maybe we can be anthropocentrics with a conscience? And realize other organisms are just as important in the survival of everyTHING including US?

With regard to the media, supply and demand absolutely are the crux but if we demand more of what is truly important and directly affects us instead of only what we &quot;enjoy&quot; hearing and seeing wouldn&#039;t that change the status quo of what gets reported? If it truly is supply and demand and we demand, then they should supply, correct? How do we accomplish this? I have no idea.

If we have the capability to make positive impacts as we have made negative impacts (and we can muster up the WILL) then yes, there is hope, isn&#039;t there?!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! How &#8220;poetically&#8221; put Dallas! (I love your definition of interdependency &#8212; that was great!) I still struggle with how we CANNOT be anthropocentric &#8212; as you point out, we are the only species capable of accomplishing all that we have in such a short period of time (even if it is in the form of destruction!) We are pretty incredible. Other living organisms are &#8220;pretty incredible&#8221; as well &#8212; the microscopic organisms we need in our bodies to survive, the insects and plants all giving rise to interdependency in their own ways, but as you state, they don&#8217;t APPRECIATE any of it either (not that we&#8217;re not CAPABLE, we just take it all for granted and lose sight of the fact that we&#8217;re not the only ones out there contributing or in need). Maybe we can be anthropocentrics with a conscience? And realize other organisms are just as important in the survival of everyTHING including US?</p>
<p>With regard to the media, supply and demand absolutely are the crux but if we demand more of what is truly important and directly affects us instead of only what we &#8220;enjoy&#8221; hearing and seeing wouldn&#8217;t that change the status quo of what gets reported? If it truly is supply and demand and we demand, then they should supply, correct? How do we accomplish this? I have no idea.</p>
<p>If we have the capability to make positive impacts as we have made negative impacts (and we can muster up the WILL) then yes, there is hope, isn&#8217;t there?!?</p>
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		<title>By: Dallas</title>
		<link>http://greenbananablog.org/2008/02/environmental-themes/comment-page-1/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenbananablog.org/?p=15#comment-29</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I knew I was rewording your statement slightly. I figured you would reply like you did because of previous posts where you indicated you believe in something beyond the created realm in which we find ourselves.

If, as you say, there is a world beyond the physical, then you may not have to leave this one to discover that one. The fact that mankind conceives of an uncreated plane of existence must indicate our ability to &#039;know&#039; that sphere here and now.

My proof is that other creatures do not consider or conceive of anything beyond the space/time plane of existence. As creatures, they live instinctively and then return to dust. Humans are the only creatures who create objects of worship that transcend creation. The fact we can consider existence apart from and beyond death; an eternal existence; UNcreation,  proves there is a part of our being that correlates.

That part of our being is the key that unlocks the mystery of our human life. 

As always, enjoy your posts.

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I knew I was rewording your statement slightly. I figured you would reply like you did because of previous posts where you indicated you believe in something beyond the created realm in which we find ourselves.</p>
<p>If, as you say, there is a world beyond the physical, then you may not have to leave this one to discover that one. The fact that mankind conceives of an uncreated plane of existence must indicate our ability to &#8216;know&#8217; that sphere here and now.</p>
<p>My proof is that other creatures do not consider or conceive of anything beyond the space/time plane of existence. As creatures, they live instinctively and then return to dust. Humans are the only creatures who create objects of worship that transcend creation. The fact we can consider existence apart from and beyond death; an eternal existence; UNcreation,  proves there is a part of our being that correlates.</p>
<p>That part of our being is the key that unlocks the mystery of our human life. </p>
<p>As always, enjoy your posts.</p>
<p> <img src='http://greenbananablog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Tye</title>
		<link>http://greenbananablog.org/2008/02/environmental-themes/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Tye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenbananablog.org/?p=15#comment-28</guid>
		<description>I never said, &quot;we will never know the answer to why we are here.&quot; What I said was, &quot;Chances are, we will never know the answer as living beings on Earth.&quot;

My faith tells me that when I leave the physical world I will be given all the answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never said, &#8220;we will never know the answer to why we are here.&#8221; What I said was, &#8220;Chances are, we will never know the answer as living beings on Earth.&#8221;</p>
<p>My faith tells me that when I leave the physical world I will be given all the answers.</p>
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		<title>By: Dallas</title>
		<link>http://greenbananablog.org/2008/02/environmental-themes/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 05:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenbananablog.org/?p=15#comment-25</guid>
		<description>I appreciate your analysis, Kevin. I agree there is a degree of mutual dependence and therefore inherent responsibility. I was taking issue with the term interdependence vs. mutual dependence. A good illustration of interdependence is seen with a fruit tree and its branches. The branches depend on the tree to supply the life juice and the tree depends on the branches to bear the fruit. Fruit are the result of an overflow of life. The tree cannot bear the fruit without the branches. The branches cannot receive the life supply without the tree. I view our relationship to the biosphere as mutually dependent but not mutually interdependent based on this reasoning. You can go on without me because we are not interdependent even though we might benefit from each other&#039;s contribution to the whole.

As for your last assumption that we will never know the answer to why we are here, I find that illogical, untenable, implausible, and unsavory for this reason: By nature we seek to understand everything around us. From macro to micro, man has always expressed an insatiable appetite for knowledge. If there can be no consummation to our quest, then the pursuit is vain and we would be the most miserable as a result. Better to be a honeybee that follows it&#039;s rote instinct for 6 weeks and then dies than to experience the joy of discovery only to be left void and 6 feet under. If there is no satisfying answer to this question then even our discourse over these matters is pointless and we are reduced to an existential nihilism without God and without hope in this world; free to do what we choose but then, who cares and who wants to anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate your analysis, Kevin. I agree there is a degree of mutual dependence and therefore inherent responsibility. I was taking issue with the term interdependence vs. mutual dependence. A good illustration of interdependence is seen with a fruit tree and its branches. The branches depend on the tree to supply the life juice and the tree depends on the branches to bear the fruit. Fruit are the result of an overflow of life. The tree cannot bear the fruit without the branches. The branches cannot receive the life supply without the tree. I view our relationship to the biosphere as mutually dependent but not mutually interdependent based on this reasoning. You can go on without me because we are not interdependent even though we might benefit from each other&#8217;s contribution to the whole.</p>
<p>As for your last assumption that we will never know the answer to why we are here, I find that illogical, untenable, implausible, and unsavory for this reason: By nature we seek to understand everything around us. From macro to micro, man has always expressed an insatiable appetite for knowledge. If there can be no consummation to our quest, then the pursuit is vain and we would be the most miserable as a result. Better to be a honeybee that follows it&#8217;s rote instinct for 6 weeks and then dies than to experience the joy of discovery only to be left void and 6 feet under. If there is no satisfying answer to this question then even our discourse over these matters is pointless and we are reduced to an existential nihilism without God and without hope in this world; free to do what we choose but then, who cares and who wants to anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Tye</title>
		<link>http://greenbananablog.org/2008/02/environmental-themes/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Tye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 05:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenbananablog.org/?p=15#comment-24</guid>
		<description>I disagree that, 

&quot;Nature does not depend on me and you don&#039;t either.&quot;

because you also say,

&quot;We both depend on nature, however, and should therefore consider the consequences of our interaction with it.&quot;

We are a part of nature, as we are living things, and there are several definitions that will back that up. Therefore, being a part of nature, and you saying, &quot;&quot;We both depend on nature,&quot; means we do depend on nature, meaning nature depends on us. This is not just a play on words. We are made up of organic material, or the 118 elements you mentioned, not &quot;sunlight, solar flares, a lunar tidal effect, and various meteorites that enter our atmosphere,&quot; therefore, we are nature. 

Nature does depend on all of us. 

&quot;Why are humans alone able to create imbalance at will?&quot;

Because we are also capable of bringing balance &quot;at will,&quot; as you said with reference to us having a negative impact. We have &quot;the potential to make a positive one as well.&quot;

Maybe nature wanted to see if it could &quot;willfully&quot; survive, so it created us as a challenge, or maybe we were created by a higher power with its intentions unknown. Chances are, we will never know the answer as living beings on Earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that, </p>
<p>&#8220;Nature does not depend on me and you don&#8217;t either.&#8221;</p>
<p>because you also say,</p>
<p>&#8220;We both depend on nature, however, and should therefore consider the consequences of our interaction with it.&#8221;</p>
<p>We are a part of nature, as we are living things, and there are several definitions that will back that up. Therefore, being a part of nature, and you saying, &#8220;&#8221;We both depend on nature,&#8221; means we do depend on nature, meaning nature depends on us. This is not just a play on words. We are made up of organic material, or the 118 elements you mentioned, not &#8220;sunlight, solar flares, a lunar tidal effect, and various meteorites that enter our atmosphere,&#8221; therefore, we are nature. </p>
<p>Nature does depend on all of us. </p>
<p>&#8220;Why are humans alone able to create imbalance at will?&#8221;</p>
<p>Because we are also capable of bringing balance &#8220;at will,&#8221; as you said with reference to us having a negative impact. We have &#8220;the potential to make a positive one as well.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe nature wanted to see if it could &#8220;willfully&#8221; survive, so it created us as a challenge, or maybe we were created by a higher power with its intentions unknown. Chances are, we will never know the answer as living beings on Earth.</p>
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